Thank You Horsemen!

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Thank You Horsemen!

Postby Hockeymask » Wed Aug 19, 2015 4:12 am

Thanks Horsemen!
The Power club has so much exclusive content like Vintage and Modern sections that have exactly nothing. I like the brief bios and history, it's much better than what's on Wikipedia.

I heart the fanclub newsletter. I know the last one said that so there is so much more to come! I'm sure it will be in my inbox any day now!

I love that the Power Lords website is nothing but a posting board for your other projects and kickstarters for your friends. I'm so glad I don't have to look at Power Lords info and updates when I go to a Power Lords site.

That membership was sure worth it. With that 10% discount on all those Power Lords figures that keep coming out.

Speaking of content, I love that we have a complete collection of Adam and Gripptogg. I understand it's hard making new figures when none of the Power Lords figures sell out so the fan support isn't there, but I can't seem to find a SINGLE figure for sale at your store...does that mean that everything sold out then?

I am excited to see that all your other work such as MOTUC, the New Thundercats Line, Mythic Legions and Ravens are all in a six inch scale. It's awesome despite numerous fans asking for at least core characters in a compatible six inch scale, we're still sticking with the 3 3/4 inch scale. After all, I'd rather it scale with Outer Space Men than all the other lines you work on. Plus you don't want to ruin the look and glycos parts for the line, except that they are ruining the look by adding new joints, which make the old figures seem stiff and outdated.

And I hear you're dropping the glycos parts anyway, good thing you don't switch or at least offer a 6 inch line because afterall, we are a whopping 2 figures in!!! I'm sure you aren't going to offer another better articulated Adam down the road, so it's not like we won't be rebuying figures we already own anyway.

Finally, How 'bout that summer kickstarter! Yes! I'm so happy I waited for it. 6 inch, 3 3/4 inch? I'll gladly take either one or better yet both. I feel that you are really taking care of me by offering nothing, so I don't have to struggle on a decision.

I understand that you guys are mega-talented (seriously) and your talents are in demand (deservedly so) and you are busy. I'm sure many defenders will rush to attack me and my entitled views. After-all these were given to me for free, so I shouldn't be allowed to have the voice of a customer who pays a premium for a collector's line. Furthermore, I know two (three?) years to wait is nothing so I should learn to be more patient.

Thank you for everything guys!

Signed,
A Truly Truly Truly Truly disappointed fan.
(I'm sure I'm not the only one.)

PS - The year wait for the Ravens was expected, understandable and worth it. This, with the Power Lords and how comparatively faster and numerous Mythic Legions is going to be cranked out, is both a joke and disrespectful.
Last edited by Hockeymask on Sat Aug 22, 2015 6:22 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Thank You Horsemen!

Postby Clambo » Wed Aug 19, 2015 9:06 am

I totally agree with everything said above. Funny, that I picked today to see if by some strange chance, an update had been posted.
Please make a DCUC Warlord and/or Sgt. Rock... oh wait, Matty killed the line.
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Re: Thank You Horsemen!

Postby Mindless-Focus » Wed Aug 19, 2015 9:11 am

It's not all bad. At least my dream came true about getting MOTUC scaled Thundercats! I think this line is irrecoverable.
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Re: Thank You Horsemen!

Postby Ghost Whisper » Wed Aug 19, 2015 8:18 pm

It really is a shame how this line has been treated. I was so excited a couple of years ago getting the Power-Con exclusives and the figures that would soon follow. And then...nothing.

It has just been totally abandoned for other stuff. Not cool. :x
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Re: Thank You Horsemen!

Postby Hockeymask » Thu Aug 20, 2015 1:52 am

I'd like to add, that I'm about as Pro-Horsemen as one could be which I think is what makes this so difficult for me. It's hard for me to admit to myself that a bunch of professionals that I respect and artists that create product that I absolutely love would do this to their fans. But facts are facts. I really hate to use this comparison, but many of these tactics feel like the spin doctoring of "you know who" from a "classic" line of figures.

Case in point:
-The near total avoidance of the subject matter with fans. I know they are busy but I don't think a small pittance of an update every 3 months is an unreasonable request, yet this has only been addressed in inevitable situations like conventions. There's no volunteering of information.

- The "down the road" time when things are going to "really get going. It was always "right around the corner" then the summer kickstarter now apparently it's a pre-order in the fall or is it now winter? I understand with collector's line that delays and set backs are inevitable. The Ravens roll-out was fine, the delays were explained and fans were kept in the loop. Even though it was a year, I was not once worried.

-Admittedly I'm pulling for some type of 6 inch scale solo or in addition to the current line, simply because I LOVE the 4H style and dream of lining up the Power Lords with Classics New Adventures, Thundercats with Vintage Classics and Mythic Legions with Preternia Classics. We've been told it's not logistically possible for a 6 inch line because of all the playsets and vehicles that are coming. If that is the case, that is completely understandable and awesome as I could only imagine placing vehicles and a full legion of 3 3/4 figures around the MAMMOTH vintage Vulcan Rock playset, however we have no playsets, no vehicles and really no figures.

- We were also told that 6 inch is out of question as it would force fans to rebuy the current figures - all two of them. Yet with the new figures no longer glycos compatible, and with added articulation from new style joints the 1st two figures WILL look out of place. This might be passable if those two were the more unique looking aliens, but for heaven's sake it's Adam Power (and any use of the male buck) who is going to look like a Kenner's Star Wars figure next to an army of GI Joe 25th anniversary figures.

-The 4H have earned credibility and the right to screw up. If the line didn't role out the way it was envisioned, crap happens. Just come out and say it so collectors can move on. Some collectors can sell off what they have to others who are okay with a partial collection. Im happy the ML took off like it did. If it gobbled up the resources for PL, so be it. If that's the case, then give the license to someone else (Or whatever as I don't know the business aspects of it) because at the very least I'm sure you guys have felt the sting of seeing a company sit on a license you love and not do anything with it - ie Mattel only allowing stactions instead of the 4H to make complete figures for 200x.

No Im not going to badmouth the horsemen as people, no I dont think they are corrupt (just got in over their heads with this and the Ravens and ML explosion) and no I won't boycott them and I will continue to buy their product. However in this instance they ARE wrong and fans need to let them know how they feel.
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Re: Thank You Horsemen!

Postby Izdawiz » Fri Sep 11, 2015 1:26 pm

Ghost Whisper wrote:It really is a shame how this line has been treated. I was so excited a couple of years ago getting the Power-Con exclusives and the figures that would soon follow. And then...nothing.

It has just been totally abandoned for other stuff. Not cool. :x


The line has NOT been abandoned, although I can understand why people are frustrated because it is not moving along faster. The Horsemen are still working on the line (alternate heads, accessories, etc.) but there have been some unforeseen delays (Not related to Mythic Legions, or Thundercats, or MOTUC, or the Birds) but related to the fact that the Four Horsemen have to move their entire studio to a different city by October 1st.

The Four Horsemen have been at the current studio space for 16 years and they have a ton of stuff to pack up and move. This is a HUGE undertaking, which coupled with all their other responsibilities has caused the new Power Lords stuff to take longer than anticipated. The big move is taking a good deal of time and energy as you can imagine, but it doesn't mean that Power Lords have been abandoned, just delayed.

The new Power Lords are coming though and they will be spectacular and the new studio is going to be a big upgrade. It is going to allow them more flexibility regarding space and promises to be way better for shipping and receiving because they will be on the ground floor and have their own loading dock.
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Re: Thank You Horsemen!

Postby Ghost Whisper » Mon Sep 14, 2015 10:12 am

Izdawiz wrote:
Ghost Whisper wrote:It really is a shame how this line has been treated. I was so excited a couple of years ago getting the Power-Con exclusives and the figures that would soon follow. And then...nothing.

It has just been totally abandoned for other stuff. Not cool. :x


The line has NOT been abandoned, although I can understand why people are frustrated because it is not moving along faster. The Horsemen are still working on the line (alternate heads, accessories, etc.) but there have been some unforeseen delays (Not related to Mythic Legions, or Thundercats, or MOTUC, or the Birds) but related to the fact that the Four Horsemen have to move their entire studio to a different city by October 1st.

The Four Horsemen have been at the current studio space for 16 years and they have a ton of stuff to pack up and move. This is a HUGE undertaking, which coupled with all their other responsibilities has caused the new Power Lords stuff to take longer than anticipated. The big move is taking a good deal of time and energy as you can imagine, but it doesn't mean that Power Lords have been abandoned, just delayed.

The new Power Lords are coming though and they will be spectacular and the new studio is going to be a big upgrade. It is going to allow them more flexibility regarding space and promises to be way better for shipping and receiving because they will be on the ground floor and have their own loading dock.



Sorry dude, that is a way lame excuse. I call 2 figures in a year and a half abandoned. In that time how many Mythic Legions and Ravens figures were sculpted, painted, and sold?
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Re: Thank You Horsemen!

Postby Izdawiz » Tue Sep 15, 2015 12:29 pm

Ghost Whisper wrote:
Izdawiz wrote:
Ghost Whisper wrote:It really is a shame how this line has been treated. I was so excited a couple of years ago getting the Power-Con exclusives and the figures that would soon follow. And then...nothing.

It has just been totally abandoned for other stuff. Not cool. :x


The line has NOT been abandoned, although I can understand why people are frustrated because it is not moving along faster. The Horsemen are still working on the line (alternate heads, accessories, etc.) but there have been some unforeseen delays (Not related to Mythic Legions, or Thundercats, or MOTUC, or the Birds) but related to the fact that the Four Horsemen have to move their entire studio to a different city by October 1st.

The Four Horsemen have been at the current studio space for 16 years and they have a ton of stuff to pack up and move. This is a HUGE undertaking, which coupled with all their other responsibilities has caused the new Power Lords stuff to take longer than anticipated. The big move is taking a good deal of time and energy as you can imagine, but it doesn't mean that Power Lords have been abandoned, just delayed.

The new Power Lords are coming though and they will be spectacular and the new studio is going to be a big upgrade. It is going to allow them more flexibility regarding space and promises to be way better for shipping and receiving because they will be on the ground floor and have their own loading dock.



Sorry dude, that is a way lame excuse. I call 2 figures in a year and a half abandoned. In that time how many Mythic Legions and Ravens figures were sculpted, painted, and sold?



Way lame excuse? Really? It sounds like a pretty legitimate reason to me.

Have you ever had to pack up and move an entire business, with literally thousands of molds, prototypes, and a warehouse full of inventory before? While having to work full time to fill time sensitive commitments? Something's gotta give right?

I guess having a few people complain about having to wait for Power Lords makes more sense than having thousands of MOTU fans or all of the people who have already paid for their Mythic Legions figures complaining, doesn't it?
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Re: Thank You Horsemen!

Postby Hockeymask » Wed Sep 16, 2015 10:05 pm

You know Izadez I was about to say, I have no issue with you as it seems this problem has been dumped on you, but I don't think that last snarky response was needed. You shouldn't get upset with legit fan complaints, nor fans who won't accept your "explanation" for the situation. Moreso, if you do, too bad. We aren't getting these high priced figures for free, so until we are - learn some business etiquette and deal with it.

Secondly, I'm not going to split hairs on the moving situation as I don't know the behind the scene issues, but it is a bit odd that even through this ENORMOUS move, the ONLY line that was affected was the smallest one. But not splitting hair again, let's say that that is the absolute truth, why would you need a warehouse to upload content to a website, send a digital news letter or simply post updates on the PL website. There seemed to be plenty of time to post about kickstarters for their friends, surely there could be content uploaded or sent to, you know, paying customers.

I also don't see what the warehouse thing has to do with dropping the glycos parts, or adding new joints or changing the aesthetics of the figures? Maybe, I'm just a dumb paying customer who doesn't understand how moving shop can affect all these things that have nothing to do with a physical workshop space.

I'm glad you're finally being honest and out in the open. I agree with you because it's what we've said all along - it's better to shaft this smaller paying fanbase now that a larger fanbase has been discovered. I can't say I disagree with them. Better to make your own line in a scale EVERYONE wants, then pay for a license for a line in a scale that most don't care for - I just wish they can be honest about it. I just have a feeling that people will be speaking by closing their wallets this time. Hopefully this license will go to someone who will actually do something with it - rather than insult the fans that have the nerve to actually ask for product to buy.
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Re: Thank You Horsemen!

Postby Ghost Whisper » Wed Sep 16, 2015 11:11 pm

Izdawiz wrote:Way lame excuse? Really? It sounds like a pretty legitimate reason to me.

Have you ever had to pack up and move an entire business, with literally thousands of molds, prototypes, and a warehouse full of inventory before? While having to work full time to fill time sensitive commitments? Something's gotta give right?

I guess having a few people complain about having to wait for Power Lords makes more sense than having thousands of MOTU fans or all of the people who have already paid for their Mythic Legions figures complaining, doesn't it?


As you put it "something gave" a long time ago. Power Lords. The move now has nothing to do with what has NOT gone on for the last 16-20 months with this line. If it is not profitable for them just be upfront about it and don't string paying customers along with the false hope we "might" get something...someday.
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Re: Thank You Horsemen!

Postby JafariStew » Thu Sep 17, 2015 6:25 pm

Every fan has a right to be upset with how this line has been handled, as it's been running now for about 2 years and we have very little to show for it & a complete lack of communication from it's actual license holders. A little info goes a long way and I can't imagine why anyone except us die-hards would even care anymore. This line had a lot of promise when it started but now it feels aimless. I don't understand when you are trying to sell your product, how so little attention can be placed on your consumers.
This forum has no action, because there is nothing for us to talk about, speculate, or interact with... because any tidbit we get is met with months of silence.
Why won't the 4H stand up for their own licensed property? And why should we not start looking elsewhere for something that will engage our collective nature...
I look at my Power Lords shelf and see so much potential, yet at the same time can't help but feel defeated. :|
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Re: Thank You Horsemen!

Postby Four Horsemen » Fri Sep 18, 2015 9:30 am

Hi All.

I wanted to jump in here and set some things straight before speculation started to get out of hand. I could write up responses to all of the issues point by point here, but I really feel like it would be more productive to address the bigger picture. The past is the past, and we'd love to go back and make a lot of different decisions along the way, but this business is a learning process no matter how long we've been in it. Certain things like the newsletter just flat out didn't work, but for most of the issues there is always a good reason for why things are done the way they are done.

To address the biggest elephant in the room: The line has not been abandoned, and it hasn't been until we say it has. It's moving at a snail's pace, but we have not forgotten Power Lords, and we certainly haven't ignored it. Although the release schedule has been underwhelming, the amount of work that we are putting in behind the scenes has been tremendous. We've put hundreds of hours into sculpting and developing what we hope is the future of the line. So far we have prototyped Sydot, Raygoth, the Power Soldier Assassin, and Disguyzor. There are other characters that have been started as well. Each one of those has at least 4-5 variants. Those include multiple head sculptures, multiple accessories, and multiple paint masters. There are other things that we have been working on in an attempt to revitalize the line that we can't reveal yet, but again a lot of work has gone into it.

So where does that leave us now: We are currently finalizing the sculpting and fabrication on the above mentioned characters. This has been a tough hill to climb lately. We have been slammed with Mattel work (which actually pays the bills here), and we are in the midst of a colossal move here at the office. (This is also why we've been so quiet since SDCC.) Once the the prototypes have been 100% finalized then they will be shipped to China for pricing. As soon as we get those numbers and have time to analyze them we will put up a large pre-order for what we are calling series 2. That will probably be three of the figures plus variants. The plan is that it will be the most amount of Power Lords product that we've offered at once to date. If that goes well, then we will follow a similar approach to speed up the releases and make up for some lost time.

Power Lords was set up with a plan based on the way that Outer Space Men was handled. With OSM we took a while, but we did accomplish what we set out to do which was getting all of the original characters out to fans. We were even able to get 4 extra characters done, which was an amazing bonus. With PL the same system just flat out didn't work, and it's taken us a while to figure out how exactly we can make it happen. The simple fact is that the numbers just didn't work. We think that given the right set-up the numbers can work. We've taken so much time and put so much thought into retooling things because we want to make sure and get as many characters as possible out there. We want them all!

Now I want to just speak about this line on a personal level. Power Lords is one of my favorite toy lines of all time, and it's possibly had more influence on me creatively than any other. To get this license and work on these figures has been an ultimate dream project in a career filled with dream projects. I understand the frustration with the lack of movement on this line. I apologize for that, and we are all sorry for that here at the studio. Trust me, it's frustrating from our end as well. As a fan I just want more figures. As a toymaker I want to sculpt more figures. So far I've invested thousands of hours, years of development, and a ton of money into line. It's all been worth it because it's Power Lords. I still think that Power Lords was way ahead of it's time, and I think that even though the wait sucks that Power Lords is worth the wait.

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Re: Thank You Horsemen!

Postby Izdawiz » Fri Sep 18, 2015 4:36 pm

Hockeymasl wrote:You know Izadez I was about to say, I have no issue with you as it seems this problem has been dumped on you, but I don't think that last snarky response was needed. You shouldn't get upset with legit fan complaints, nor fans who won't accept your "explanation" for the situation. Moreso, if you do, too bad. We aren't getting these high priced figures for free, so until we are - learn some business etiquette and deal with it.

Secondly, I'm not going to split hairs on the moving situation as I don't know the behind the scene issues, but it is a bit odd that even through this ENORMOUS move, the ONLY line that was affected was the smallest one. But not splitting hair again, let's say that that is the absolute truth, why would you need a warehouse to upload content to a website, send a digital news letter or simply post updates on the PL website. There seemed to be plenty of time to post about kickstarters for their friends, surely there could be content uploaded or sent to, you know, paying customers.

I also don't see what the warehouse thing has to do with dropping the glycos parts, or adding new joints or changing the aesthetics of the figures? Maybe, I'm just a dumb paying customer who doesn't understand how moving shop can affect all these things that have nothing to do with a physical workshop space.

I'm glad you're finally being honest and out in the open. I agree with you because it's what we've said all along - it's better to shaft this smaller paying fanbase now that a larger fanbase has been discovered. I can't say I disagree with them. Better to make your own line in a scale EVERYONE wants, then pay for a license for a line in a scale that most don't care for - I just wish they can be honest about it. I just have a feeling that people will be speaking by closing their wallets this time. Hopefully this license will go to someone who will actually do something with it - rather than insult the fans that have the nerve to actually ask for product to buy.


Hey Hockeymasl,

I just wanted to say that nothing "got dumped on me," I'm not part of the business, I'm a fan, just like you. I just wanted to share the fact that I found out the guys were moving and having been to the studio a number of times, I know how big an undertaking that is. We're talking big machines, fabricating equipment, a molding and casting kit, thousands of molds, accumulated prototypes, inventory etc. along with computers and everything else that goes into running a busy office.

Heck, I only have one small room full of toys and I've already told my wife that I never want to move again just because I don't want to have to deal with the pain of packing all my stuff up, moving and having to unpack it and set it up again. Multiply that by 100 fold and you have an idea of what the Horsemen are dealing with.

Now that Eric has responded, you've heard it straight from the Horsemen's mouth. The Power Lords have not been abandoned and they remain committed to bringing you all the Power Lords goodness, you can handle...
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Re: Thank You Horsemen!

Postby JafariStew » Fri Sep 18, 2015 9:08 pm

Thanks for the feedback Eric, as it is really appreciated by the fans, truly to hear it from one of the men behind the magic! I will remain hopeful that all of us can bring the power back to Power Lords! 8-)
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